JOEY RAMONE: I had the weirdest cab ride here, you know? This cabbie I got, he says, once I get in, he says, ‘Are you a movie star?’ and I said, ‘Well, I’m in a rock band’. And he said.and he starts playing music like Dolly Parton about the thing in the stream, you know with that guy with the white hair…

CHRISTINE NATANAEL: Kenny Rogers?

JR: Kenny Rogers, right, you know? Then he puts on this tape and starts chanting in like Swahili or something, you know? It was weird. And he starts…it sounded like a record on backwards, you know? And then I said, I said, um, ‘what kind of accent is that?’ And he was from South Africa or something like that.

CN: I always have weird cab rides in New York. You take your life into your own hands…

JR: I felt a little…I wasn’t so paranoid, but when I set down in the cab I decided I was just gonna sit and not ask anything, like, ‘what are you listening to?’, you know what I mean? I figured, well, maybe for a cab driver it’s good for your nerves to listen to that and chant along. Maybe it’s soothing. And then I thought, well maybe he does this, maybe it’s a ritual he’s gonna do before he shoots me or something. You know what I mean?

CN: Who knows? One time I had this cab driver that was taking me to a movie theater and he goes, ‘You look just like Molly Ringwald’, and I went, ‘You’re on drugs’. And he goes, ‘But wouldn’t it be terrible if all of a sudden I locked the doors?’ Click. And he locks the doors. And he goes, ‘…and I took you somewhere and I axe-murdered you?’ And I went, ‘You’re joking, right?’ And he goes, ‘Yeah’.

JR: I saw a movie like that last night on Cinemax about that tie-murderer. I forgot what it was called…The Necktie Murderer. It was a great movie. I mean, it was real intense. It’s rare that you come home and turn on the tv and you actually tune into something good. Usually you see the same shit that you’ve seen.

CN: I don’t watch television, but my roommate’s a tv junkie. She comes in and turns it on and doesn’t even watch it, but just has to have it on.

JR: She likes that radiation, huh?

CN: She must. It just makes me sick. I can’t deal with it. I’m a totally aural/audio person, unless it’s something like MTV, then I can tolerate it, but I watch that just to find out what the hell’s going on in the commercial music scene.

JR: Well, I turn it on just to see what the hell’s going on, but it’s always the same thing.

CN: Every 33 minutes it’s the same shit.

JR: Yeah, yeah.

CN: So you came up here today and you were making phone calls?

JR: No, I’ve been up here the last three days or so…the schedule, the Ramones schedule is very intense. We go to Spain, we leave Sunday and when we come back we have to, actually we have, like, I think like 6 to 8 weeks to bring in an album, complete, because the album will coincide with the release of the film, the Stephen King film which we did the soundtrack for. So we want the album, well, actually the single comes out three weeks prior and then the album three weeks after the single. And we want the album and the movie to coincide for the best…

CN: Maximum exposure?

JR: Maximum.

CN: Yeah, you’re gonna throw it right in their faces.

JR: I mean, well, this, the movie is the perfect vehicle for the album. Also, the movie is Paramount, and Paramount is putting a lot of money into it. And also, the single is gonna be, like the sleeve is from the film, and then we’re doing a video that’s gonna be intercut with stock from the film. And Stephen King is gonna be in it, too. He’s in the movie.

CN: Really.

JR: Well, Pet Semetary was his biggest selling book, and it’s a real opportunity… I mean, and the Ramones are on the brink of massive success anyway, so I mean, it’s timing couldn’t be more perfect, but it’s just that everything has to be coordinated and everything has to, you know? For the deadline everything has to coordinate. So we’re working on getting a producer. And we have to confirm the producer today or tomorrow.

CN: Who are you looking at?

JR: Well, we had two people in mind…Daniel Rey will be involved, but we were thinking of Joe Garini and we were thinking of Matt Wallace, who just did The Replacements’s album. And we’re talking to him now. Well, we talked to Andy Wallace, too. I want somebody who understands us and who’s enthusiastic…who is a Ramones fan, first of all, and who understands hard rock but is versatile and maybe, can take us a step further, but won’t lose the crunch, the edge, the rawness, the excitement…who will only, who will incorporate it all, but who can take us a step further, you know what I mean? Maybe bring out some other aspects of us that maybe…you know what I mean? Because with this album, I want it to be the best album we’ve ever made. I mean, I feel all the albums we’ve done are great albums, but this album, I want it to be very special. And also, like, this is probably, as far as I’m concerned, um, the Ramones have never been a stronger band, and a lot, and we’ve never been tighter as a band, and we’re goin’ on 16 years being in a band. And um, you know, draw-wise, well, we’re a live band. We’ve been on tour…we’ve always, we’re a touring band. That’s what we enjoy doing. That’s what excites us. We like going out and playing for the kids. That’s what it’s all about. And, but I mean, being in close quarters on the road for…the way we work, we’re always working…I mean, it’s gonna become…there’s gonna be personal frictional situations. And like, there was a period for about three years in the past that me and John wouldn’t talk and there was all kinds of rivalry and jealousy. There was a kind of stagnation period. And um, you can’t have, a band can’t function if there’s no communication, just like governments can’t function if there’s no communication. But if something is that important to you, you’ll see it through. At the time, the problem was very heavy, it’s of a personal nature, which I’m not gonna get into, but, um, you know, like, somebody’s got to be the bigger person and say, ‘let’s work it out’ if it’s that important. Because that’s what breaks up bands is ego problems and personality shit, and personnel, and ‘I can’t get along with him’, and ‘I hate his girlfriend’, you know what I mean?

CN: Yeah, right.

JR: Yeah. And so, you know, but I mean, this band is very important and very special, you know? Where we were, you know, sure after a heavy crisis, you gotta regain somebody’s, the person’s trust or you’re not gonna be friends. I mean, I think within, it’s taken about a year that I think John realizes that, I’m, you know, I’m completely there for him, and I fuckin’ care and…and I care about this band. And, um, and like, I’ve opened, it’s opened lots of doors for myself. And um, and I know we’re fuckin’ great, and this album, I just want, I want it to be sort of how it was before it was all these, all the bullshit got instilled into the band, you know what I mean? As far as writing, I want to just make a great fuckin’ record, no holds barred, let’s say.

CN: Do you have all your material done for this new record?

JR: Yes, but I mean, actually, I got…I’ll have about 13 songs that I’ve written myself or co-wrote. Like, um, I just wrote a new, co-, I just reworked one of Andy Schernoff’s songs. Which, Andy brought me down to sing on their album, for um, they were cuttin’ “Attitude”. So, I mean, and he gave me a song and I sort of reworked it. You know, I played it for him, and I said, ‘Yeah, I think it’s gonna be fuckin’ great’. And he liked what I had done, better. He liked what I had done with his song better than what they originally had, because they weren’t crazy about the workings of the original.

CN: Yeah, sometimes you need an outside opinion to get things past that point of stagnation.

JR: Right.

CN: I do that with my writing, like if I’m writing and I get to a point where something’s not there, you know, I’ll go, ‘Read this and tell me what you think’.

JR: No, I know, you know, like, I mean, I think, I think it’s exciting working with another person, but then, sometimes…I mean, I always worked, wrote alone, myself, and then, I guess in the earliest days of the Ramones, well, the songwriters in the Ramones were always me and Dee Dee, and for the most part, it was an individual thing. I mean, a lot of the early stuff was collaboration of the band. And in the early days of the Ramones everything said it was written by the Ramones, but that was a lie, cause it was never true. But I mean, in the early days of the Ramones, we wanted to, people to see the band as a unit, like a, like a, The United Front here, of sorts, you know what I mean? Like, um…

CN: Right. No one was better than the other…

JR: Well, I mean, the way the Ramones are, basically, is that we are a unit. We all have the same vision, the same goal, and we go out, we go out with a killer attitude and we execute it. You know, but like, uh, you know, sort of this, like uh, in the early days we wanted people to know that we were a unit and that we were unified. But I mean, it’s a little frustrating when, you know, like, I guess there was an agreement made that all songs were written by the Ramones, but that’s not the case. Actually, you know, like, if you’ll, a person should be credited for what they do, and also, like, you might be trying to put something across or something where, you know, obviously, it wasn’t written by four people, you know what I’m saying? Also, it might have been something personal that you were trying to direct at somebody or something and it gets lost when it’s stated that it’s written by an organization of people, you know what I mean, a conventional whatever…

CN: And then that personal thing, it feels exposed, sometimes, too.

JR: Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, so, I mean, um, I don’t want nothing, but I’m losing my train of thought…(he laughs)

CN: So, the early stuff was a unit and now it’s mostly you?

JR: Well, no. I mean, the early stuff was mostly me and mostly Dee Dee and then some of the songs were written by the band, too, you know what I mean? Like, uh, for an example, on the first album I wrote “Beat on the Brat” and “Dee Dee’s a Punk” and Dee Dee wrote “53”rd and 3rd” and Dee Dee wrote “Today or Tomorrow the World” and John was involved with that, um, you know what I mean? I wrote “Chainsaw”. I wrote “Sedated”. I mean there was a lot of stuff I wrote and also Dee Dee wrote. I think that’s very exciting, having more than one songwriter in a band because, uh, you know what I mean? Even though a lot, I guess, um, a lot of the stuff we like, we share that, but then again, some people are more influenced by something else. Like, nowadays, I like heavier music more than, Dee Dee is, he’s swaying more like, well, what’s he swaying for? Anyway, we all like heavy music, but I like, I mean, um, Dee Dee, he just recorded a rap album, a solo album that’s coming out in March, but that’s not what he writes…that’s not what he would write for The Ramones.

CN: What are you into, personally, like, what’s your favorite group?

JR: One of my favorite bands, well, I always loved Motorhead. They’re like one of my all-time favorite bands. AC/DC, um, well, I used to love AC/DC with Bon Scott, but I mean, the other guy is good, too. He looks like a cab driver, but he’s a good guy. And what else? I like The Georgia Satellites. I like The Dickies.

CN: And you’ve played with a lot of these people…

JR: Yeah, and then there’s a lot of great local bands that I think, New York City has, I mean, the fertile environment for new artists is New York City….

CN: Talking about local bands, see, I think that you, like me, believe firmly in New York bands.

JR: Oh, I didn’t mention, I like Guns‘N’Roses, too. I like them, but I don’t like…why do I like them? I’ll tell you why I like them…I them because they’re, because they don’t kiss ass. I like their attitude cause it’s a real rock and roll attitude. It’s like, it’s the right way, but I don’t like all this drug shit, the fuss they make about drugs and all that stuff, you know what I mean? And the way they’re sort of going is, you know, I mean, I don’t see them being around in five years, you know what I mean? But uh, I think they write great songs and they have the right attitude and they look good and they’re a fuckin’ band. You know what I mean? They’re a good rowdy band. You know what I mean? They’re role models for the world, especially America. They have the number one record in America, so kids look at Guns’N’Roses and put together a real rock and roll band. And the bands that are around nowadays are real, like, more down-to-earth rock and roll bands than the bullshit Bon Jovis and shit like that, you know what I mean? Which is good.

CN: We’ve always had those real down-to-earth rock and roll bands in New York. Like, look at Raging Slab and the Cycle Sluts From Hell, and all that type…

JR: And Richie Stotts…

CN: Yeah, I love Stotts. It’s real home-based rock and roll. You know, when I came back to New York and started writing again, every fucking magazine had 90 bands from LA. Like, wait, there’s no bands in the world except from LA and England? So I took it as my personal crusade…

JR: Well, that’s what I was gonna do writing for Reflex Magazine. I was gonna do a thing about New York City and the bands here, but I just didn’t have the time to do it. But I felt, that, on the other hand, doing the shows I’ve been doing and exposing the bands I’ve been exposing, I’m more or less doing it the best way I can do it. You know what I mean? I just give a shit.

CN: I think we give a shit more than most people do.

JR: Also, from the party that I had recently, which was the 13th, well, the next step is that I filmed it. I had a seven camera shoot.

CN: You were filming it just for you?

JR: No, I’m putting it together as a special.

CN: For MTV?

JR: No, to sell worldwide. Well, it won’t just be a rock…the whole thing itself was, to me, it was almost like, it was like, uh, (I’m collecting my thoughts here)… It was a real production, it was like, I felt like a playwright. It was like, Broadway, you know what I mean? Because, I guess the premise came out of a party, but everyday I got more and more ideas, and then I incorporated like, some uh, like uh, a theme, the Circus of the Perverse.

CN: Especially for Friday the 13th…

JR: Well, the idea came in August or something, you know? So, and I incorporated, like I got this guy who does special effects for Hollywood horror films, and so, you know…

CN: He did the set?

JR: Well, his idea was the bashing of the melons and the Inquisition there, you know what I mean? And I incorporated Arturo as my partner because Arturo is the sickest guy I know besides myself. And like, I mean, basically, what I wanted to do was all the fantasies that we conjure, but you just have to keep to yourself. I wanted to put into action, actually put…I wanted them to live.

CN: It was like, real excess, too especially near the end.

JR: I mean, and then there was the rock and roll aspect of it too, I mean, I got…all the bands I got are bands that I totally support and also they definitely were…I mean, they’re all different. They’re all great bands. But then there was the theatrical, the performing artists/ theatrical people and then there was…you know, it was more than a rock and roll show. It was a production from creating the whole environment and atmosphere…I wanted to blow people’s minds. I wanted to expose people to something that they’ve never been exposed to.

CN: My roommate was asking me, ‘Well, why are all these different people here?’, and I said, if you know Joey and you know the history of the Ramones in New York and rock and roll, everybody that’s here fits in, in one capacity or another. They’re all intertwined and related. It would take hours for me to tell you how everybody knows each other.

JR: It was like, total perversion, like, without…I mean, when people think of perversion they think of sex, but just the fact that there were so many different types of people there…the art world, the this or that, you know what I mean? This coagulation of people from various backgrounds, and various life-forms, walks of life and things like that. But basically….

CN: Did it take a long time to put it together? I mean, everybody, I’m sure, supported you in it like Debbie [Harry] and [Lady] Bunny and everybody.

JR: You know, I had to explain to them what it was. You know, Debbie…even Debbie I had to explain, she didn’t just say ‘yeah, I’ll do it’. I mean, it was, I mean, I really…this one was intense because I wasn’t just booking bands, I was in touch MTV, I was in touch with all management…the thing was, I bring in, and making it happen, and bringing Lemmy over from England…I mean, I was trying to get in touch with Motorhead for about a month. And this was during the Christmas holidays where nobody’s working and all the record companies are closed. But I just kept…I’m good at this stuff, you know what I mean? I contacted a lot of people who put me onto somebody who put me onto somebody who put me onto somebody else, and then, eventually, you know?

CN: Yeah, because I talked to Lemmy the day after the show. I got to interview him the day after, and he was like, ‘the best guy there was the one with the duckhead’ or something like that. He enjoyed himself. He had a good time.

JR: Yeah, well, it was wild because it wasn’t just bring people in and take care of their needs. It wasn’t just…then it was going into art, it was getting the props and going to over on 12th Avenue to these prop houses and looking at backdrops and taking care of the art, and the expense and dealing with Neil Cohen, who was a partner as well, who owns the Ritz…and budgets and expense and ticket prices and advertising and promotion and publicity. I mean, I did it, the whole thing.

CN: Do you ever see yourself going from the Ramones into, like, management?

JR: I have a headache (he says putting his hand to his forehead, cocking his head to one side and rolling his eyes as he laughs). That’s basically what I’m doing now. I’m doing about five projects at once. I’m working on getting this film, also, at the very end, like four days before the party, I said, ‘This has to be documented’. So I spoke to this guy, Ed Lachman, who’s doing the CBGB’s movie, and he’s done a number of rock films and stuff. And I thought, and Ed’s great, Ed’s great, and I thought, well, will there be enough time to put a crew together and stuff when it was four days away. Ed had the greatest fucking attitude. He said, ‘Sometimes the best things are the most spontaneous,’ which is…for someone like, going to a film producer/director, well, like…Ed Lachman is like, the best cinematographer that exists, according to anybody you ask. And like, this was like, his partners, you know? I was kind of stunned but really happy about that reaction. Some of the best things happen at the last second, you know what I mean? I mean, how many people would, you know, that you’re pulling out of the blue, come back with that answer, you know what I mean?

CN: But then again, you’re Joey Ramone…

JR: Right, but some people would say, ‘Well, you should have called me three months ago’, you know what I mean? I mean, you know, that’s just how people are. Because, not everybody’s like me, or isn’t like a lot of people I know. Some people just make a big deal about everything, you know? And those people are like, if they’re not now, they are going to be losers. They’re gonna blow it, you know what I mean?

CN: I do things at the last minute, too, and they’re always the most fun.

JR: Well, see, I like to be, like, when I take on a project, I want to be very organized. I like everything to be, you know, the best it can be. You know what I mean? I don’t do anything half-assed. What’s the point? So I mean, I worked right up to the last second, you know what I mean? And then we got this crew. And everyone did it for free. But, when this thing is put together, that’s how we’ll work it out as far as payment and shit. And there was this guy named Joel Hinman(?) who worked with me and I should make him a producer. He works with Ed Lachman, because Ed couldn’t be there. He was in LA on business. So I put together, like, a seven camera film crew and shot 16mm film, the best Kodak quality, and also put together, like, I got—until today I thought I had gotten this mixer who did the last Anthrax album, but I found out today that he didn’t show up.
But then I found out that, okay, it was done 2-track instead of 8-track. And I said, ‘Oh, shit. Will the sound suck?’ But then I found out that he shot Tom Petty newsreel and, this was years ago, and they don’t have anything like 8-track. You can’t, you know, so they did it in 2-track. And I heard the sound’s fine, so.

CN: Was the Ritz filming it on video?

JR: Well, there was one camera done, shooting video, and the other cameras were…there was about three cameras in front of the stage. It was, there was 8 hours of film because the actual length of the night of the show was about 7 hours. And then they were in there right from the start, right from when the doors, they were like, interviewing kids on the street. And the cameras were displaced, like, they were behind the scenes…there’s a dressing room, there’s a VIP room, there’s just wandering cameras. I heard there was a camera in the girl’s bathroom. I mean, then there was, I mean, they were everywhere, so, on the video, I don’t how much video was shot because I know they were shootin’ film.

CN: You know what I wanted to know? At the end of the show, when, after Stiv had come out and done his little deal and you came back out, why was he being so cynical, or did I just catch that wrong? He was like, ‘This is Joey Ramone, the godfather of punk’. He was really rude to you.

JR: I don’t know. I think it was, uh, a little too much sniff there or so.

CN: I didn’t know if it was a goof or if he was serious.

JR: I mean, I didn’t, you know, like, I like Bators, and I don’t know. I don’t under—I don’t know. I mean, a lot of people tend to get weird sometimes…but I mean, I’m not gonna try to analyze what’s what.

CN: When you started out in the Ramones, did you ever think you’d be doing this, like what you’re doin’ today on the scale that you do, like, producing and putting things together and big shows?

JR: Well, I always said, I always wanted to do a lot of things, you know? Back when I was really in no position, because I wasn’t really…I always knew what I wanted, and I always knew I could carry out and execute what I want, but I’m a lot more knowledgeable now. And now I’m finally in a position in my life where I’m ready for this. And, also, you know, you know, you have to prove things. I mean, you hafta, I mean, I just know that, when you’re a kid and you get kicked around by your parents, they tell you you’re a piece of shit. They tell you that you’ll never materialize into anything. And then the bigshots and the moneymen and the people in this part of the music business are probably the lowest of the low, you know what I mean? But, and you gotta prove yourself, you know? But then you have to prove yourself anyway. You know what I mean? You gotta make people believe it. There’s really nothing you can’t do if you put your mind to it. There’s nothing you can’t do. You know what I mean? And like, people are just people. I mean, they might be richer than you are or have more clout or in a higher position than you have, but, you can get there, too. You know, you just believe in yourself and you know you’re gonna do it, and sometimes it’s frustrating and sometimes you’re on a rollercoaster ride and sometimes, you know, life sucks…but…you just gotta fuckin’ push forth, you know what I mean? Life is cruel.

CN: You know what I’ve always wanted to ask you? I’ve heard the stories of how you started…what were you like as a kid, Joey? I mean, I know you didn’t just come out of your mother like this…

JR: I was a misfit, an outcast. I was, uh, a loner. I didn’t get along with the other kids, and I didn’t like the other kids. And I didn’t like Queens cause I didn’t…I mean, sure, now it’s different, I mean, yeah maybe…I’m, you know, I’m—I feel a little differently. I never felt—I never felt I was, you know, like Forest Hills wasn’t—it wasn’t me. It wasn’t me. I only had a couple of friends, and I didn’t really fit in there. And um, sure, now I look back at it and, well, I’ve lived in Manhattan, you know, I was still—this is me, you know. And I love New York City. It’s the best place in the world, as far as I’m concerned, you know what I mean?

CN: You never lived anyplace besides Queens and Manhattan?

JR: I’ve been, I mean, there was a time when I was in California for a while or something, and you know, there are places that I do like when I’m on tour. I like England and I like, you know, I like certain European places. I love Japan. I went there recently. But I mean, I love LA. You know, there’s a lot of great places, you know, but I mean, I like New York. You know, it’s my home. You know what I mean? I feel comfortable here.

CN: I’ve lived in about 10 different states. I went to LA and it paled next to New York.

JR: You know, I like the grit. I mean, the first thing I noticed when I was in LA is how clean it was and there was no dog shit on the sidewalks. You know what I mean? It’s like, too clean. Everybody drives a Mercedes or a Porsche. Nobody walks. And if you walk, you’re under suspicion for—the cops will bust you for walkin’. You’re under suspicion, you know what I mean? The first time I was in LA I spent the night in jail for—well, I was under suspicion (he laughs). I got harassed for jaywalking. And I remember I spent the night in jail with a couple of other guys from the band because, first of all, they found empty beer cans in the car, and then—and then I think—um, well, then the cops are harassing me and started pushing me around and I told them to fuck off, you know? So, I’m wearing handcuffs. Then they found some vitamin pills in my jacket, and they thought they had me. They said, ‘We got him now’. They were vitamin E or something and they thought it was like, LSD or something.

CN: They’re so strange out there.

JR: Yeah, they’re fuckin’ SS over there, like they way they walk like the fuckin’ Gestapo. But I hear that’s just the Sheriff’s Department. It’s a bunch of fascist pigs. I mean, even the police cars there look like something out of the 50s. You know what I mean?

CN: Don’t you seriously question anybody’s mentality who would want to get paid $22,000 a year to go out into the street and get shot at? There’s got to be something seriously wrong to only make that much money and go out in a city like LA or NY with a gun and a badge and go, ‘I’m bad’.

JR: They’re a bunch of sadists. It’s like the John Birch Society or something, this little clique of like, uh, sadists and shit, you know what I mean?

CN: You know, you spent a lot of time playing CBs back in the 70s. What are your reflections on it now?

JR: My opinions have changed, sort of. Ok, we were like one of the first bands to play CBs. When I found it, it was just a slum bar that didn’t make it as a bluegrass bar. And I remember when I first spoke to Hilly Krystal, he said, he said, um, ‘Nobody’s gonna like you guys, but I’ll have you back’, and I’ll never forget that. So I remember, like, at the time, there was this guy Terry Orr, who was managing Television, so Terry would, Television would take the best nights, but we would play regularly, you know, as often as we could. I think we used to play every Monday night and then finally got to play weekends. And uh, I remember playing, the first people we played for were the bartender and his dog. And um, these two, two guys, they were in the Cockettes, Tomato du Plenty and Girl Rose. But they were, it was like, they were sort of that Warhol crowd, you know what I mean? And so, yeah, it was the gays that picked up on us first. Then I remember Danny Fields would be always hangin’ around. And when we met Danny, we really admired Danny because he had managed The Stevies [I hope I got that right, because it was very hard to hear on this old tape…cn] and signed The Stevies to Elektra. In the ‘60s he was A&R for Elektra. And Danny Fields, he’s like, has the best taste, he knows the best, you know what I mean? Of this period, I mean, Danny Fields discovered Jim Morrison, he discovered Lou Reed, Iggy, the MC5 he managed…like, he just knew everybody. And we were big fans of the Stooges, so you know, there was an instant click there. So at that time, Danny was the editor for 16 Magazine, and he loved us, you know? So he told Lisa Robinson about us, which, they were good friends at the time, and Lisa came down to see us and said, ‘You changed my life’. And then she told other people, and so it was like, word of mouth. At that time, you know, then gradually more and more people started coming. But you know, we always wanted to play for the kids. But the kids wouldn’t go down to the Bowery, you know what I mean? We even tried encouraging other bands to come, and you know, create like, you know, really good billing and create like, a scene. And a lot of people wouldn’t come down to the Bowery, you know?

CN: It’s not like today; everybody goes down there.

JR: Well, now it’s safe. You know, it’s different. But the real hip scenes always start in places like a Bowery or some kind of slum kind of place, you know what I mean? We started in ’74, and we played CBGBs, our first show there was December of ’74. And, there was nobody, when we were there it was us, Television, and Patty Smith was a poet. Much later on, I think ’76, she teamed up with Lenny Kaye. And there was the Stilettos, who were pre-Blondie, and a couple other people.

CN: People weren’t doin’ your kind of music then, either.

JR: Well, nobody…we were the only band doing what we were doing. I mean, there was nobody else doing it. Television was doing a sort of Velvet Underground kind of thing. The Stilettos were doing a sort of Shangri-Las kind of thing. Then came Blondie, you know? But there was nobody doing anything like, I mean, we had our own sound, our own vision and there was nobody doing anything like that. Eventually, I remember when things started, the reviews and stuff, like in the Village Voice or whatever and people started coming. CBs had this big festival of the top 40 unrecorded bands, because we weren’t recorded yet. And we were the headliners. It was a three day festival and we were the headliners on the first Friday. And everybody came down. The place was jammed. And then we used to do like 1,000 people at CBGBs and they were hanging off the rafters, you know? And I remember people coming down like Clive Davis. And Seymour Stein…Seymour was interested in us, and I don’t know, Elektra/Asylum was interested in us also, but when we signed with Sire Records in ’75, it was because we didn’t want…at the time, Sire was an independent company, and we didn’t want to get…we liked the fact that Sire was self-contained and they understood what we were all about. And we wouldn’t get lost in the shuffle of a major label. So, we signed with Sire. And then our album came out 6 months earlier in England. And we went over to England on July 4, 1976, the Queen’s Jubilee, and we did—we were doin’ well at CBGBs, and we played at this place called the Roundhouse for three nights for 12,000 people. It was like, anybody who was anybody was there. And we felt like royalty and stuff. And then we played this place called Dimwalls, [I hope I got that right, too…cn] that was this other kind of club, and at our soundcheck all the kids were hanging out and telling us that they were the reason that they formed their bands. Kids like Johnny Lydon and Joe Stummer, and I remember Chrissie Hynde was working for the NME, and I mean, the place was packed with like, just about all bands, for the most part. And then when we left England and came back here, the whole first, first generation punk movement kicked off in England with the Sex Pistols…well, actually, it was The Damned and then the Sex Pistols…and the world changed from that moment on. I feel, in ’76 that Ramones revolutionized rock’n’roll and brought a whole new excitement and attitude and fun and spirit and raw energy and emotion to what was no longer there. There was a void. Like in ’76 in America it was the Eagles and the Doobie Brothers and corporate rock and Styx and Foreigner and Journey and there was no such thing as exciting music anymore. And also it was the height of disco—“Don’t Rock The Boat Baby” and Donna Summers and all this and that. So, I mean, we were, uh, you know, there was a—we were definitely rockin’ the boat. I mean, the corporation and the music industry wasn’t looking too finely on the Ramones because we were rockin’ the tree, whereas like, Foreigner and Journey and Styx and Donna Summer were the new hierarchy. We were going totally against the grain, not kissing ass, not compromising. We wanted to shake up the world. We wanted people to feel again, to feel, you know. I mean, it’s sort of like the way, what the companies, the brainwashing process that was going on was for everyone to be sort of numb. And we were saying, we were slapping people in the head and saying, ‘Wake up! You’re a fucking human being!’ You know what I mean? ‘Feel. We want you to feel again’, you know what I mean?

CN: All the music that was out at that time was like muzak in the elevator.

JR: It was like, there was a bunch like, what was happening in America at the time was like, sort of like mind control, you know what I mean? And what we were doing was sort of like batting people in the head and saying, ‘You are really a person. You can feel.’ You know? Well, that’s why, uh, we were sort of, you know, they were trying to kind of hide us under the rug. They tried to blackball us everywhere they could because we didn’t fit in and didn’t want to fit in. But then, but then, what we were doing was something positive, also. And what the bands in England, I mean, sure, I feel ‘76/’77 was the most influential period in rock’n’roll since the ‘60s—since ‘64/’65. I mean, it was the most innovative time and the most exciting time. I mean, that period, you know, be it England or America, Beatles, Rolling Stones, The Kinks, and The Who, yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, in the period ‘76/’77, the Ramones, Blondie, Talking Heads, The Heartbreaker, I mean, there was so much in America, the Dictators, well Dictators were a little prior, but they sort of came in again at a later point. Um, I mean, Dead Boys, you know, and in England, The Damned, Sex Pistols, The Clash, uh, Sham 69, the Buzzcocks, and it was—I mean, everyone was sort of doing their own thing. I mean, basically, the English took our sound and our basis, but in America it was more versatility. And America has always been more versatile, but then again, America created rock and roll. You know what I mean? Whereas, the rest of the world, the European world and the English/Australian, basically all their bands sounded like us. From The Saints to the Sex Pistols, I mean, the underlying sound was Ramones. But some of the bands like Elvis Costello and people like that, they sort of interjected themselves. They took our sound and style but interjected their own personalities into their music to make it their own music. And then again, in England and Europe, the whole state of the government and political biz is nothing like here. So that’s why, in America, like when the Ramones came out, we came off the heels of Vietnam and didn’t want to sing anti-Vietnam songs because Joan Baez and Bob Dylan and Country Joe and the Fish were doing that. And we didn’t want to do that. So, basically, the songs that we would sing were about our frustrations and getting out our aggressions.

CN: They were celebrating you. They were celebrating youth.

JR: I mean, like, our songs are about isolation, alienation, frustration, and things that affected our lives, things that we found amusing…we always had a sense of humor that a lot of people didn’t understand. It was kind of dark, you know? A lot of people took things literal—they were outraged by us. I mean, a lot of people have thought throughout the years that if you’re not serious, then you’re not a genius, you know what I mean? And that’s where, I think, the problem started, you know?

CN: But you did a good thing. I’m really glad for Ramones and that whole era because it really jumped some life into the music industry.

JR: Well, the music, from that day on, the music industry would never be the same. Rock’n’roll would never be the same again. It would be a lot healthier and it’d be in a much better light. You know what I mean? I mean, even, like, it’s affected all kinds of bands from that period until now. I mean, even like, The Pretenders and all the bands that might not have been more like a punk band. I mean, it affected everybody and everybody was influenced, whether it be musical, image-wise, attitude-wise, uh, vocabulary-wise, psychologically-wise, uh, philosophically-wise, you know what I’m fuckin’ sayin’? Everybody was touched, to some degree. And now, well, it’s I guess, how many years? Now, in 1989, well, actually, a couple of years earlier, let’s say—there’s a new generation and it’s the new youth, it’s the now youth, or whatever. And like, bands like Metallica, Anthrax, Guns’N’Roses, again, the Ramones were directly responsible for the second wave ten years later. A band like Metallica were basically taking our sound, again, but they’re sort of the new tip. The thing I like about bands like Metallica and Anthrax and all that is that, again, they’re doing it their way. And, there’s an honesty. There’s an excitement. There’s an energy. There’s a brashness that they’re sayin’ ‘Fuck you. This is us’. And their kind of hardcoreness, you know what I mean? Like, these bands are radical in a time when the kind of stuff that reigns in the Billboard, the Sugar Shit (he means Sugar Cubes), you know, like the Bon Jovis, the Foreigners again, or whatever. And the thing that I think is great is how, without play, they sell like, a million records. I think that’s great, you know? And um, so I mean, there’s—there will always be, on the one hand, the mainstream. You’ll always have your shit and your safe whitebread bands like—and then, but I mean, things are definitely stronger than ever on the other side, too. And, I mean, there’s a lot of really good things out there. I mean, things are definitely, seems a lot healthier and everything is more rock’n’roll orientated. There was a time when everything was synthesized or power-pop and all this crap—techno-pop, you know? I mean, now everything is—you can sink your teeth into it again. You know what I mean? You can chew off something. You know, you can feel the bone under the flesh. You know what I mean? Bands like, uh, you know, I mean, the days of Flock of Seagulls are gone. The days of Human League are gone. The days of—you know what I’m sayin’? It’s like, now the time to fuckin’ get down and play rock’n’roll and listen to rock’n’roll music is here again. Sure, there’ll always be the techno-shit on the other side. There’ll always be an Information Society, groups like that. That will never die because that’s unoffensive and safe. So, the radio programmers and people like that will always play that stuff because it’s harmless and it’s safe. But on the other hand, now, I mean, it’s nice to see that there’s a definite, um, need for hard rock and excitement and realism. There are a lot of great bands out there, like, uh, the Georgia Satellites, and there’s a whole sort of, you know, there’s a very broad, diversified spectrum of music. And like, really, the way I see it, there’s a lot of great things and there should—there’s no room for barriers. —there will always be, on the one hand, the mainstream. You’ll always have your shit and your safe whitebread bands like—and then, but I mean, things are definitely stronger than ever on the other side, too. And, I mean, there’s a lot of really good things out there. I mean, things are definitely, seems a lot healthier and everything is more rock’n’roll orientated. There was a time when everything was synthesized or power-pop and all this crap—techno-pop, you know? I mean, now everything is—you can sink your teeth into it again. You know what I mean? You can chew off something. You know, you can feel the bone under the flesh. You know what I mean? Bands like, uh, you know, I mean, the days of Flock of Seagulls are gone. The days of Human League are gone. The days of—you know what I’m sayin’? It’s like, now the time to fuckin’ get down and play rock’n’roll and listen to rock’n’roll music is here again. Sure, there’ll always be the techno-shit on the other side. There’ll always be an Information Society, groups like that. That will never die because that’s unoffensive and safe. So, the radio programmers and people like that will always play that stuff because it’s harmless and it’s safe. But on the other hand, now, I mean, it’s nice to see that there’s a definite, um, need for hard rock and excitement and realism. There are a lot of great bands out there, like, uh, the Georgia Satellites, and there’s a whole sort of, you know, there’s a very broad, diversified spectrum of music. And like, really, the way I see it, there’s a lot of great things and there should—there’s no room for barriers. You know what I mean? There’s no reason why you can’t like Led Zeppelin, the Ramones, and Patsy Cline at the same time, and Motorhead, and uh, you know what I mean? I mean, if it’s great, it’s great. You know what I mean? There’s no room. And then there’s so much to fuckin’ delve into. There’s a lot of great old stuff. I mean, there’s so much to learn and there’s so much great stuff. I mean, kids nowadays, they—if it’s not Poison, then it doesn’t exist, too. You know. A lot of people aren’t very open-minded, you know? I mean, once you go back you listen to Jeff Beck and The Jimi Hendrix Experience, that’s the meat—that’ s the meat and potatoes right there. You know what I mean? Not, actually, nowadays, a band like Guns’N’Roses, fine, but they’re not the Jeff Beck Group and they’re not The Jimi Hendrix Experience, and they’re not The Doors, you know what I mean? But I think they’re—I think if we ever needed a role model more and a band should be, I mean, I don’t know if they really deserve to be number one, but—I mean, I’m sure it’s a joke to them. But, I mean, if we, if we—I mean, it’s funny, if we ever needed more a role model now, it’s funny that we got Guns’N’Roses—a bunch of stoned-out junkies—(he laughs). I mean, this country, America, is a very strange place.

CN: That’s funny---let’s stop…

(Later Joey called me on the phone to talk about what had happened a week or so later when we took a trip together for his appearance on the Morton Downey Jr. Show. He was very disgruntled that the show had been stacked in order to make fun of rock musicians. If anyone has a copy of those two shows that Joey appeared on—since Morton Downey is no longer on the air—then you’ll know what he’s referring to. If not, I’m sure someone’s got a copy somewhere. Why don’t you guys get on the message boards here at CRUSHER and do a little trading if you own a copy…come on…share with the rest of us…)

JR: I mean, it’s important to me, because I didn’t really get, I didn’t say what I really felt. You know, after that second show, you know what I mean? It should be said, and no one else is gonna say it, you know?

CN: Okay, so what was it that Mort said that you wanted to comment on that you didn’t get a chance to? Because it was kind of a zoo, and you couldn’t hear. You know, everybody was talkin’ at the same time.

JR: To me, it became a grudge match. It was sort of us against them. Us against rock critics or rock journalists, you know what I mean? Some of the, those people that were supposedly representing being rock critics, I don’t believe were critics at all. And I think they were just there to incite everybody. You know what I mean? Which, they did a good job of doing, you know? Because I think anyone who would undertake becoming a rock journalist would do it because they care about rock music, not because they want to rip everybody down, you know what I mean? And I just thought the show, I mean, sure, everyone’s intrigued by the lifestyles of—I mean, there’s this total intrigue of people in rock’n’roll, you know? People are fascinated, you know? I mean, I think it just left people—it wasn’t productive. I think it was just, uh, I think it just left people more confused than being anything constructive at all. I mean, it was totally unconstructive. You know, maybe there are a couple of instances where it might have been to some degree, but I think for the most part it was just a lot of bullshit. You know? I mean, I thought the people who were chosen were, I mean, I thought it was cool, the people who were chosen, you know, the Cycle Sluts and Circus of Power and myself and Anthrax and Ace Frehley, know. I thought it was, you know, the choice was done well. But then on the other hand, I mean, you were sort of sticking up for the rock community. And not everybody in the rock community is really credible. You know what I mean? There’s a lot of bullshit in the rock community, and there’s a lot of bullshit in the rating community, you know what I mean? So, I mean, you know, I mean, like, uh, there’s a lot of pretension, you know, I mean in both kind of institutions, if you will. You know what I mean? And like, I mean, it was just a bullshit show. That’s all. You know what I mean? Because, uh, you couldn’t say, and not that, it’s nothing like you wanted to badmouth—if wanted to express a point about—you know, there’s a lot of pretentiousness in rock’n’roll, and maybe there’s about five bands that, you know, like in the interview when we were talkin’ like I was telling you, like, as far as I’m concerned the bands that really, um… You know, I can count the bands on my hands that, to me, are, really are have anything to say or are really unique or innovative. You know, of the contemporary bands. And I think those bands are, you know, like Motorhead and AC/DC and people like that, you know? And uh, I mean, like, the thing I like about Circus of Power and the Cycle Sluts are that they know their minds. They know what they’re about, and they’re rock’n’roll. They’re guts rock’n’roll, you know?

CN: So what did you think about when—he touched on the subject of musicians were ethically and socially responsible for what product they put out in front of the public and that they’re ultimately responsible…

JR: If Stryper would have been sitting there, I would have stuck up for them, too, because it was us against them. You know what I mean?

CN: Yeah, they wee trying to make Circus of Power out to be the bad boys and the other guys to be the good guys, but it didn’t really work out that way.

JR: No, I mean, it was like, it was just too general. You know? I mean, not everybody is the same, of course, some people are really talented and some people are, they’re sort of jumpin’ on the bandwagon, you know what I mean? And most bands, look at, like nowadays, are just total clones. They don’t have the slightest idea of what you should be doing or what they’re about. They’re sort of, um, it’s like their record company and management tell them how to look and how to kind of, um, go about what they should be doing up there, you know what I mean?

CN: Yeah, I know exactly what you’re saying. It’s getting to be corporate. That guy Jesse [Nash] was trying to say that, Circus of Power, for all their individuality, was still working for RCA. They don’t understand that the record company just loans them the money and you gotta pay them back.

JR: Right. I mean, I don’t—though, I’ll tell ya, I was talkin’ to the guy behind the scenes. I mean, I think he was just there to, you know uh, the way they were comin’ down on—with throwin’ out names and they were knockin’ ‘em, you know, like John Lennon or Jimi Hendrix or something like that, how could you fuckin’ be a journalist and say that John Lennon was a piece of shit, you know?

CN: Or like the guy said, ‘Oh, John Lennon. He’s dead’.

JR: Yeah, ‘He’s dead’. That’s real intelligent, you know? I mean, that’s why I really don’t—I know some of them were writers, cause uh, but I really—I mean, I thought, I mean, the show was just, you know, just this kind of hysterical nonsense. It was total sensationalistic nonsense. And I think if they wanted to have a good show, at least they should have had people who were real credible journalists. You know what I mean? Because these guys didn’t know nothing about nothing and they were badmouthing everybody, and uh… I thought the choice of, you know, the choice was really, uh, you know, in bad taste. nothing about nothing and they were badmouthing everybody, and uh… I thought the choice of, you know, the choice was really, uh, you know, in bad taste. You know what I mean? I mean, there were a couple of highlight moments there. And I thought, for the most part, Morton Downey, himself, was a pretty cool guy, for the most part. You know what I mean? I mean, I thought he had the right attitude. He was a smart guy. He had the right attitude. You know what I mean?

CN: I liked his music video.

JR: I liked his music video. I rate it a 10…on a scale of 1 to 10 I rate it an 11…oh, what would I give it?

CN: We’ll have to do a Ramones video with you standing by the mailbox just like he was.

JR: I think the next time I’m asked to host a video show, I’ll definitely have to play his video. You know what I mean?

CN: That would be great. People would die.

JR: Then I’ll play Metallica or something, you know what I mean? Well, I don’t know. Basically, that was, you know, I just felt that, you know, I just got this kind of feeling of—I remember even saying to that guy Scott [Ian of Anthrax], I said, ‘You know, in some ways I wish I didn’t even come.’ But I mean, I’m glad I was there. You know what I mean? But I mean, I just thought it was a—the show was just a very---

CN: Well, basically, it was just to promote the Cycle Sluts and Circus of Power. That’s all it was.