Crusher Magazine is very happy to present a conversation with the great Tony Martin looking back on his awesome contributions to the iconic Black Sabbath as well as his thoughts on the state of the music industry, his solo career and much more. We are quite thrilled with this special interview with such a powerful vocalist and storyteller and have created themed drinks called “The Headless Cross” to celebrate. While you are reading this we will be cranking “The Sabbath Stones” and breaking commandments. A big, hearty thanks to Tony Martin for the music he gifted metal heads with throughout his vibrant career and especially for the thoughtful responses to our rabid fanboy questions.


TONY MARTIN: Hi guys. Ok, let’s see what I can do for you.

ANDREW JOHANN DATOUSH: Tony, You definitely have your own mighty place in the Sabbath legacy. Your songs are distinctive on their own while also contributing to the overall legacy of a band that had much heavyweight importance and history before you joined. How much were you self conscious of inheriting part of a legacy?

TM: Very conscious!!! You don’t get a job like that and not be aware of it!!!! All that was before is placed before you at every turn. The fans wear shirts of other singers and we played songs of other singers. And the politics are unique to different singers.

MORGAN Y. EVANS: What was it like?

TM: It’s hard if you are not used to it. Actually, it’s hard even if you ARE used to it.

AJD: Did you feel immense pressure?

TM: Of course…I was in unfamiliar territory.

MYE: What did you want to acknowledge from the past and what did you want to do differently when you joined Sabbath?

TM: Wasn’t given a choice. The rules were set. The first album was already written, the tours were arranged and my manager at the time was a passenger.

AJD: Was it an intense feeling when you realized you'd gotten the job?

TM: It was quite numbing. Things happened so fast I didn’t get THAT much time to appreciate the job…I was too busy trying to DO the job.

MYE: What were some of your favorite songs to perform from both your era and past eras while you were fronting Black Sabbath?

TM: I was quite a fan from a young age so I was reasonably familiar with the songs. Not all of them, but most. I liked ‘em all other than “Paranoid”, but I found myself doing more and more of the older songs and that started to wear thin. I wanted to do more of mine, obviously!!!!

AJD: We are fans of your versions of "Die Young" and "Symptom of the Universe". Morgan also really likes "Kiss Of Death", which lyrically is almost headstrong with powerful confidence. Also, any specific general live moments that stand out, looking back?

TM: Yep, they are all great songs. Enjoyed them. There are a hundred different things that happened along the way. Most are not printable … some are stupid… some embarrassing…..

AJD: Perhaps something funny or strange that happened on tour?

TM: Well, I found myself being threatened with Geezer Butler walking out if I didn’t introduce him at a certain point in the show!!! That was weird. His wife called me and told me he would leave if I didn’t introduce him in “Time Machine”…ohhhhkay. Another one was I got arrested by a Russian body guard when I jumped off stage to reach the crowd. He didn’t know I was the singer and grabbed me around the neck to arrest me. Fortunately, one of his colleagues rushed to my assistance and I have to say the idiot that arrested me was VERY embarrassed!!! I still punched the bastard though!!! Fuckin’ idiot!!

MYE: A band like Sabbath comes with a certain aura. How did it feel taking the stage as Sabbath's singer, or is it the same headspace you bring to the stage regardless of what project you are fronting?

TM: Well, it is different of course. It goes with the territory. I have lost a lot of that kind of stage craft. Mostly because the atmosphere is very tied into the stage show, and that only happened with Sabbath.

AJD: You were with Sabbath for quite some time and many fans even consider you to be THE Voice of the band. Every album had its own very distinct sound. What was your personal favorite album that you recorded with the band?

TM: I think CROSS PURPOSES but HEADLESS CROSS and TYR were my first written pieces with the band, but then I loved THE ETERNAL IDOL. Hard to say really.

AJD: The music video to "Headless Cross" is one of my absolute favorite music videos of all time. It was very dark and ominous, everything I think about when I think of Black Sabbath imagery-wise. I liked it better than the 70's special acid effects in "Paranoid", for example. Was there a music video you enjoyed making?

TM: Nope!!!! They were all a pain in the ass. I was not really involved in the story telling of the videos. I have acquired since then, some of the original story boards. I had no Idea at the time that is what they were thinking of. So it was a bit of a quiz to me. They just ran the track and I went with it. If they wanted me to stand elsewhere or do something they would stop and tell me….

MYE: Could you tell us about your experiences in making them?

TM: Each one was different. I was always surprised at how they turned out. For example, I never expected there was going to be a shoot in L.A. for “Feels Good To Me”. I thought we had done the shoot in London… then when I saw it I was gobsmacked!!!!

MYE: TYR dealt with themes of Norse Gods and spirituality/honor in general when it wasn't necessarily popular in rock to do so. Amon Amarth, for example, are an awesome metal band with Viking themes, but now this is more prevalent again in metal than in 1990 when you made TYR. Could you talk about writing that epic album?

TM: The songs were assembled singularly. I didn’t really get the theme until later in the recording. It wasn’t planned. I only had a couple of ideas covering the Viking theme.

MYE: How did it feel when you came up with the awesome transition from "Odin's Court" to "Valhalla"?

TM: It was always a great feeling to complete the tracks. I still get the same feeling now when a track finally acquires its’ identity.

AJD: What was the goal?

TM: Just to complete an album that people would like. It was written in stone that the album would be released. Not like today. You never really know if it’s gonna be accepted. But then…it almost didn’t matter what was released. Maybe that’s not completely true but it felt like that….. and I wanted it to be the best it could be so I spent a LOT of time making the lyrics and melodies work.

MYE: Many of your best songs like "Heaven In Black"…

TM: That’s about the church in RED square in Moscow.

MYE:…and Drew's favorite "The Sabbath Stones".

TM: The Ten Commandments.

MYE: …are on this pivotal Tony Martin-era release. ..

TM: Yep… love ‘em.

AJD: I must admit, it was very hard to find info on your post-Sabbath career. What went on for you after the FORBIDDEN tour ended, and you were officially out of Sabbath?

TM: Holy cow. A lot happened. Mostly I was disillusioned with the whole idea of being in the music business. Almost wanted to retire there and then.

MYE: Do you mind talking about your feelings about this stuff?

TM: Not really…It’s all in the past and isn’t as part of my life as much as it was then.

AJD: Also, what more recently brought about the end of Tony Martin's Headless Cross? We wish we had caught you live with that project.

TM: Several things happened to that. Firstly, we were getting the most horrendous situations placed on us. Various promoters and agents either ripped us off or left us stranded or generally fucked up. Unbelievable, crass irresponsible behavior that left us having to explain to the fans that we couldn’t make it or shows were cancelled or …I had to explain to the guys that the money hadn’t been paid or the equipment wasn’t there…just too many times we were left with a sour taste and no money…so I had to stop. I would say at this point that I have the utmost admiration for my guys. Geoff Nicholls, Danny Needham, Rolf Munkes, Jamie Mallender, My son Joe and even Fabio Cerrone,…who was with us before Rolf…. They all behaved immaculately. It has left me and so many others that have contacted me really determined that something has to change in the industry. Touring is one thing but recording is the beginning and musicians are the first that have to change. For too long we have let the industry take from us and now there is nothing left. Musicians must stop working for free…And stop giving music away for free…it’s quite clear that once you have given it away there is no one else to SELL it to… and the price of music so so fuckin stupidly low….!!!!!!! The latest offer I had for an ALBUM is $1.40 ….. !!!!!!!!!!!! But all the people in the chain still take their percentage and cuts. The artist is the first person in the chain that writes the song but very often is the LAST person to be paid!!! We are the SAME person!!! I am talking to various lawyers and organizations to see what change can be made to the industry. I am also determined to work in a new way that doesn’t involve all the industry takers. The technology has been blamed for much but it’s not the tech. We love the tech. It’s the people using it that is the problem. And the attitude MUST change… music is NOT for free!!!!

MYE: "Cross Of Thorns" from CROSS PURPOSES had a strong theme reflecting religious hypocrisy. This is pretty self-evident, but is it possible to criticize the hypocrisy of the Church through the ages (since the Inquisition was obviously screwed up, for example!) and still have faith? I am not sure of your full spiritual beliefs, but was comparing "Cross Of Thorns" with the very pro-God "After Forever" from the Ozzy era. Not that they couldn't both co-exist under the name Black Sabbath. Thoughts on this subject?

TM: Well, I’m not a believer but I have a very good understanding of its nature…but to be honest, you kind of miss the point….. IT’S AN ACT!!!!!!! It’s theater…It’s not a lifestyle. We all get in our cars at the end and go home to our families…who go to the supermarket for food and send our kids to school…INSIDE the act we put on a show…. And THERE we can say and or sing anything that gives inspiration or feel to the crowd. Mostly it’s self selective. Most people are there because they want to be and because they get something out of it. We love performing and clearly are of the same frame of mind but it’s as varied as the songs themselves. Each one carries a completely different theme or message or story.

MYE: Back to the song "Headless Cross"...it also has a very interesting song structure that, like many of the best epic Sabbath songs like some Ozzy SABOTAGE stuff or epic Dio stuff like "Children Of The Sea", totally defies short song duration in favor of very lengthy arrangements. Every time the chorus and hooks hit it keeps you charged up, but what are some of the challenges to singing such epic material?

TM: Well, it’s down to Iommi’s riffs really…He keeps writing the fuckers so we keep working with them…He loves sections within songs. Very rare do you hear one riff constantly through a track…So as he writes the riffs…I would take them and put them in the order I needed to make a song out of them then present it all back to them and they would record it in that format. Easy.

AJD: It's been said that you were called in to re-record vocals on the DEHUMANIZER album, much as you had done with Ray Gillen's tracks on THE ETERNAL IDOL. Is there any truth to this?

TM: Kinda…

AJD: Are there any Tony Martin DEHUMANIZER demos floating around out there?

TM: Nooooo.

AJD: Also, what are your thoughts on the forthcoming ETERNAL IDOL deluxe edition re-release?

TM: I have no input and receive nothing for that album since I was not a writer. The DEHUMANIZER situation was because they were having concerns with Ronnie. Very shortly about 3 months after I was fired I had a call asking me to go back but I had begun my solo album BACK WHERE I BELONG. I refused to return…But they asked me to go to the studio and see what I could make of it. It wasn’t completely successful. Just a day trip and a few hours. Given time I could have come up with something more I guess…but I think they were trying to make sure the decision to work with Ronnie was correct. I am not privy to the problems they were having. Clearly they were having some issues and the album was the only one they did before I finally got the chance to return. But most way through the DEHUMANIZER album and tour, Iommi contacted me and I eventually met up with them in my home town. Ronnie wasn’t too impressed with my appearance but then shortly after that I got the call to return. So although I wasn’t physically there, I was in touch through the period.

MYE: Can you tell us some thoughts on working with Cozy Powell and Iommi or Geoff Nicholls and the other guys from your records with Sabbath?

AJD: Anything you really enjoyed, and as far as difficulties, is that water under the bridge now?

TM: Well, clearly Cozy is no longer with us…And I have to say I never thought he would make an old man!!! I had no visions, but he was someone that lived life and sometimes dangerously… I celebrate the time I spent in his company…and learned that he didn’t suffer fools at all. If he thought you were out of line he had no problem letting you know. I came unstuck twice with Cozy. Once wasn’t my fault and once was, but to be honest I never had THAT big a deal. I still thought he was a great guy. Iommi I had only a couple of problems with. Geoff, no real problems at all. Geezer was VERY quiet and I never really got to know him well…but the Sabbath camp haven’t spoken to me in the past 15 years so I have no idea how the land lies now…I met Iommi very briefly in Russia and that was fine.

MYE: Long one here. You are a great example of a singer who has a strong personality as "himself". I always like singers, regardless of genre, who can really use their own voice rather than, say...fitting into a "hair metal" style like in the glam 80's or only screaming like so many metal bands do today (which can be cool but not if it is because you are covering your insecurity to have your own vocal identity). Modern artists like Julie Christmas from Made Out Of Babies or someone like Blaze Bayley from Iron Maiden fame are two examples of some very different vocalists who are clearly being themselves and it resonates more. You have been compared at times to Dio because it is occasionally operatic, but you have a distinctive character all your own. This is so important! I think too many acts suffer from lack of their unique characteristics. I loved how early punk bands every "punk" band sounded different because it was random people yelling about how they hated work or taxes and they did it in their own nasal or untrained voices, not copying a pop hit like nowadays. Or look at a legend like Robert Plant who had influences but broke ground by pushing them outside the box! Thoughts on this? How did you cultivate your own style? You can be smooth and soaring, compelling and dark in the same song. What music strikes you as unique these days?

TM: I have no choice but to use the voice that I have…there are certain things you can do to achieve an IMPRESSION of someone else but it’s not possible to keep it up. My voice is very much my own although it has changed over the years as it does with singers.

MYE: Mine did as well.

TM: I always struggled with my voice, not being a natural singer, nor trained. I kinda damaged it over the years and I found my voice developed with that so it’s not the same voice I had on THE ETERNAL IDOL, for example. Now it’s different. Still me but different.

AJD: FORBIDDEN is one of my favorite albums and one of Morgan's favorite albums is ORIGINAL GANGSTER. How did Ice-T come into the fold as a guest? He's not the first guest some people would have thought of for Black Sabbath (though Body Count was awesome and he was very confrontational and controversial in the 90's). Can you talk about this or anything else memorable from FORBIDDEN? "Guilty As Hell" and "Get A Grip" were some cool songs.

TM: I hate it…The album was completely taken from us. The management decided apparently to do the rap thing. I had no idea if I was even going to be the singer until I was in the studio. I rehearsed it with them and wrote with them but they couldn’t or wouldn’t tell me if Ice-T was doing the album or a track or a guest appearance…I never met him and it was all done behind closed doors from my perspective…clearly not to them ‘cause they were operating it.

MYE: Any advice for people in the music business trying to make it or trying to live a life centered around hard rock and metal? How do you set goals and keep going whether times are good or bad?

TM: I’m not sure the industry is worth anything anymore. Music is worthless. Its’ value has gone. The artist can not survive as an artist. Most of us do other things now to try and keep the career going. Only a few have the position of being able to live off their work. My advice would be GET A JOB!!!!! You’ll need it to survive.

AJD: Many fans around the world hope that you'll keep making records. Whether you intend to or not, how does it feel to have accomplished more than many other artists dream of and how do you feel about life in general, on a day to day basis or specifically when remembering all the music you've made?

TM: I love the music I have made. I hate that it is worth nothing. I dislike the way that music is now like being one of the old artists. Your work is worthless while you are alive and becomes valuable when you are dead. I JUST made it to the end of the industry as it WAS. Very quickly the business collapsed and companies started self protecting. For example, it seems to me, the industry I knew had things called 5 year deals. It was designed to get the most out of an artist. They were able to steer and develop the direction. Now you are lucky if you get one deal for one year and then dropped in favor of a hundred sound alikes. There are too many acts in the business that sound the same. That’s because the companies can make money from them. Merchandise has become part of deals now and other tricks to try and keep revenue coming into those that live from the work that the ARTIST created. It’s a mixed up desperate industry and I really, really, really hope I have some part in changing it!!!!!!!!!!

As far as my personal life is concerned. I am happier than most. Got 4 great kids and great friends and family. They are wonderful people and it’s because of them I can be so strong in my position to the music business. Without them it would be empty. But mostly all my kids have desires to be musicians…and I CAN’T let them go into it.!!! They all have steady careers and study.

One final thing I would add is that I am VERY pleased with the genuine fans that have followed my career…I have thousands of fans. I call them my family on Facebook and Myspace…And I love 'em.!!! Nothing changes the input they have made over the years or the dedication or the belief. It’s all still very valid and very important. The industry might be fucked!!

The music however… LIVES ON!