LINKS:

down-nola.com

myspace.com/downnola

“Spread the word! Change the face of music, ‘cuz it’s fuckin’ ugly!”

The scene was a sweaty concert hall, The Chance Theatre in a grimy section of Poughkeepsie, New York, February 11, 2008, and Phil Anselmo, legendary ex-Pantera and current Down front man was leading high mass over a court of true metal devotees.

Down are currently touring their third release, the monumental sludgy sonic edifice that is 2007’s Over The Under. That Down weren’t nominated for the Grammy for this long-awaited (and often never expected) third album is pretty much absurd. That the theatre was half full is easier to explain. It was a Monday night and also brittle and brutally cold outside.

Nonetheless, Down delivered in spades to the lucky stoners, bikers and metal spawn in attendance. There was even a strange ratio of fat metal guys with, nonetheless, hot girlfriends! With old crushing staples like “Bury Me In Smoke” and “Lifer” (the later dedicated to the late Dimebag Darrell) mixed with mellower moments like the cathartic “Learn From My Mistakes”, Down showed Poughkeepsie they were back and swinging at the naysayers and odds.

By the time the band launched into the gigantic opening notes of “On March The Saints” from the new album, it was more than evident that they were dead set on persevering however they can, whatever the crowd size. Phil dedicated the song “Mourn” to “anyone who has ever really endured tragedy; like someone coming over and burning your whole house to the ground type shit”. With the December 2004 murder of Dimebag Darrell, the horrible devastation of hurricane Katrina, and the fucked up FEMA response and incompetence of President Bush towards Down’s beloved New Orleans fresh in mind, it was a strong moment of connection with the fans, all frustrations and depression channeled for a brief respite into riff worship.

Earlier that night, I spoke to guitarist Kirk Windstein (also of Crowbar, Kingdom of Sorrow) about Down’s return, tenacity, and belief in all things metal. He also discussed his new upcoming project with Jamey Jasta of Hatebreed called Kingdom of Sorrow.

It was thankfully much warmer on the bus, and despite his gruff exterior and notoriously mean riffs, Kirk was extremely cool and good natured.

MYE: The first Down album was pretty raw. I mean you had mellow stuff like “Jail” on there also but the second had more stuff added like “Stained Glass Cross” for example. It was maybe a bit more polished, though still really heavy. Down II: A Bustle In Your Hedgerow was the first album you used Warren Riker on as producer also.

KW: Yeah.

MYE: I think the new one is kind of all encompassing. The band’s feel and lock, especially on a song like “Beneath the Tides”, is so happening. Sometimes people think of third records and it brings to mind Led Zeppelin III where it was really varied, but your third album kind of encompasses everything and builds.

KW: That’s an interesting way of putting it. I agree. We didn’t set out for it to be any certain way. We just write. There’s songs that were killer that didn’t make the record ‘cuz we thought they maybe just didn’t fit the vibe of the record. One of my favorite things about it is the feel from note one of the record to the end…(coughing) excuse me. I’ve got a bad cold. I’ll be alright.

MYE: This weather fucking sucks.

KW: Aww my God, dude! I got off the phone, I was just talking to [Jamey] Jasta [of Hatebreed] and he said, “Trust me, it’s colder in Connecticut.” Sorry for the interruption but yeah, I love the flow of the record.

MYE: The segues, man! Down has always been so good at that. I love how “His Majesty the Desert” ends and “Pillamyd” just rockets up out of it. That’s a soon to be classic Down segue!

KW: Yeah, it is.

MYE: A new song “The Path” seems to be very emblematic of the band. You’ve always had gritty songs that deal with real life with songs like “Lifer” and “Rehab”. [note: quite a bit darker than the Amy Winehouse song named “Rehab”] You guys soldier on and there is a lot of struggle inherent in the music.

KW: Yeah. We went through a lot of personal stuff, like the hurricane, which was, of course, a big thing, but also our personal demons. (makes drinking gesture)

MYE: Right.

KW: There’s drug issues that people are already aware of. Everybody is doing much better and it’s working well.

MYE: On that note, your albums, I mean, you were due for one. People were kind of chomping at the bit hoping there would be another Down record. Your records seem organic and unforced. Some bands, especially these days, it seems like they’ll just throw something onto CD just to have a new release. Down have more reverence for crafting an album in its proper course. You seem to let it arrive and not whip out some piece of shit.

KW: That’s what we try to do. NOLA , the first record, kind of wrote itself over the course of years demo-ing songs.

MYE: You kind of wrote it out of friendly jam sessions.

KW: Yeah. We had everything written when we went to the studio to do it. Down II, we had the crazy idea to lock ourselves in the damn barn, the Lair, we call it, out on Phil’s property. We lived there! We didn’t even leave. We just wrote and wrote. I didn’t even bathe for a month (laughing). It was ridiculous. On this one we took a different approach. We demo-ed all the songs first--from the time we started writing to the time the record came out was little over a year. Phil really worked hard with the lyrics. He walked around twenty four seven with a notebook and would constantly change shit. He’d call people up and say , "I wanna change this” or “I wanna do this part four times instead of twice”. We kept up the demos and put a hell of a lot of effort into it, and it really helped the songs come out the way they did.

MYE: It’s hands down one of the best heavy albums I’ve ever heard. “On March The Saints” and stuff, you are going to help fans channel a lot of the same issues that they’ve gone through as well. I mean, last time I saw Phil perform was in Poughkeepsie with Pantera a number of years ago with, I think, Soulfly, Morbid Angel and Nothingface. So much has changed since then, and I don’t just mean Dime’s passing, but a lot of things have changed in life since then additionally.

KW: Totally.

MYE: Dealing with surviving Katrina or the personal topics in a song like “Mourn”, obviously there must’ve been a lot of pressure involved to make the statement for this album as strong as you wanted and needed it, but you guys really delivered.

KW: Thanks. We knew it was gonna be a lot of pressure. When we made the commitment to get together and make it our real band, the number one priority for everyone, we knew we had to make a great record. That’s why we did our time and did it at our own pace. We didn’t force anything. We knew it was gonna be the most important record of our career, and we’re real proud of it.

MYE: For some of the other guys in Down it had been a little longer, but you had worked with Warren Riker and (Down/Ex-Pantera bassist) Rex Brown on Crowbar’s Lifesblood For The Downtrodden in the interim, between Down releases. I love that album. How was the approach different working with them on a Crowbar record versus something like this, where Rex is obviously playing a bit more.

KW: Um, The approach really isn’t much different. The thing we like about Warren is he’s a good friend of ours, number one, but he’s easy to work with. One of the things we like about him is his recording style is a throwback. He does stuff an old school way, which we like. We did stuff on Pro Tools, everyone does these days but…

MYE: You mean analog.

KW: Yeah, he also uses a lot of analog approach and old tube pre-amps. We did all the drums on sixteen track two inch tape, the old school way.

MYE: Fuck yeah.

KW: The approach is not any different than we did with Crowbar. I like how that music sounds better than today’s super-polished, perfect lined-up drums on a grid. It has no soul.

MYE: A polished turd.

KW: We love shifting gears and sounding real. That’s the groove, too.

MYE: Yeah and Alabama Thunderpussy. I think you were playing “Slave No More” or something, I forget what song. But I was dancing and got nailed in the face and bit through my tongue and shit!

KW: That sucks.

MYE: My ex was overseas and she came back and was like “WTF! I can’t leave you alone!” (laughing) But I met Pepper afterwards at a bar and he gave me the pick he’d used that night and it was very cool. How does it feel to have fans who love your music so much they are willing to do stupid things and put themselves at personal risk? (laughing)

RACHAEL WEISS (Photographer): I got my rib cracked at the last Down show I went to, crowd surfing.

KW: That’s not good!

RW: No, it was fun! It was worth it.

KW: The show or the cracked rib?!!

RW: Both! (laughing)

KW: I’m too damn old to get out in the crowd, I mean, not just the pits or anything but sometimes we’ll have people thrown over the top, or I see little girls or guys that are just mashed up against the front, and I’m like, “Are you alright?” I had a girl the other night in Allentown, Pennsylvania. It wasn’t even a big place, and it was stupid hot inside the club. Cold outside. It was a sweat box and there was a poor girl in the front, and I threw her a water and asked if she was ok. It feels good that everybody is loyal and are willing to go through all that shit just to see our band play.

MYE: To see a real rock show! Dude, I can’t think of a band with a more intimidating combination of people as far as your pedigrees. I mean, you have “Planets Collide” by Crowbar which is like, the awesomest song in the world…

KW: Thank you.

MYE: Corrosion of Conformity has “Albatross”, to say nothing of Pantera and Eyehategod. I can’t think of one band combined from something that started off from friends jamming with so many people in it who are such a strong super group. I mean, to a lot of people you are, which I’m sure you’re aware of, a super group of metal. On a more mainstream level I was thinking about a band like Audioslave. They have some really good songs like “Revelations” or whatever, but overall I liked their earlier bands better. At times it seemed like Chris Cornell, who I’m a huge fan of, was kind of singing over Rage Against the Machine, and I think it would’ve been cooler if he had played guitar also, like he did on some later Soundgarden.

KW: I know what you’re saying.

MYE: Your sound is reminiscent of what you’re known for separately in Down but I think that Down also is more of its own distinct entity.

KW: It doesn’t sound like our other bands, yeah. A lot of that has to do with the fact that what influences Down musically is not necessarily what influences the other bands we’re in. Crowbar’s influences are not the same. Pantera’s influences were not the same.

MYE: There’s crossover points.

KW: Right, right, right. That’s the beauty of being able to play in different bands. If you are going to play in different bands, make them sound more different. I’m not trying to get too far off on it, I know what you’re saying, but the reasons we sound like we do in Down as the five individuals involved is that we approach Down differently than our other bands for writing and everything.

MYE: How can you possibly describe to your fans or aspiring musicians how good it feels to play some of these riffs, or opening up for Heaven and Hell (aka. Black Sabbath with Ronnie James Dio)?

KW: I mean, you can’t. The Heaven and Hell thing was a dream come true. Me and Pepper, we’d go out into the middle of the arena and watch (Tony) Iommi. It was crazy, we’d be hitting each other. “That’s Tony Iommi right there.” Sitting in an arena by ourselves watching the dude warm up and play for two hours. Amazing. As soon as we heard his guitar rig we’d run out the dressing room and watch him the whole time. It was cool, we did the Canadian tour. But when we did the Australian tour with them it was cool because we didn’t travel by tour bus or anything , we flew everywhere. So we’d be on the same plane, and we got to actually meet them more. Phil and Rex knew Vinnie [Appice], too, but especially Tony and Geezer from Pantera touring with Black Sabbath and everything, but we didn’t really know them.

MYE: And you got to meet Ronnie and shit too? I fucking love Dio.

KW: Aww man, the best. He’s the best. To be able to sit at the airport and have a few drinks with Ronnie James Dio and talk about music and life! He’s such a nice man, he really is.

MYE: So he didn’t only talk about dragons and stuff?

KW: (laughing) Aww, hell no. But yeah, they knew us and would see us the next day and pat you on the back or something, or ask how our voices and throats were doing and would walk down the aisle of the plane, and I’d think, “God, that’s Black Sabbath”.

MYE: Often it seems like a new band will come out, like Trivium or something, and people will say they are “saving metal”. Whether it is good or not, I mean, I was talking to a friend about this and he said that metal doesn’t need saving.

KW: Yeah.

MYE: Sometimes in life people will be working a shitty job where you have to listen to whatever is allowed on the radio there, or let’s say you are broke and have a shitty car radio and crappy reception and just get lame radio stations. Down is a band when you can’t fucking take that anymore and you just need release and something real! Some real riffs!

KW: Well, we try to write real riffs.

MYE: A few more questions. I know after Katrina, Pepper went home and did some work in the community, and obviously now more time has elapsed and whatnot, but how are things there in your assessment?

KW: I mean, certain areas are fine and certain areas are really messed up and are never going to come back. It’s never going to be the same. A lot of the areas that faired okay are thriving again big time and are really doing well. The population is picking back up, but there are certain areas that are just screwed. They’ll never be the same probably. I ended up, I mean, we couldn’t do anything. I couldn’t get my equipment even. I ended up gutting houses and salvage, tearing sheetrock out. That really sucked. Not only was it two months after the storm and we’re tearing out people’s refrigerators and shit, their freezers with all the rotten food and poisons, but we had to wear these protective, like, astronaut suits. It was stupidly hot and there was no air. It was bad because it was people’s whole lives. We’d clear an apartment and the whole ceiling of sheetrock or drywall or whatever would just fall in on the place and over everything. The filthiest most disgusting thing. It was sad, but it was cool to help. We did some of our friends’ houses. I did some electrical work setting up FEMA trailers for people, and I’d get up at four thirty in the morning and be at work by six during the winter. Believe it or not, I mean, it doesn’t get cold like this, but it does get cold in New Orleans, for as hot as it gets. I’d get to the yard where I had my work truck at six a.m., and I’d get my truck as the sun was just coming up. I wouldn’t get home until seven or eight o’clock at night. We did that for a couple of months. It was for the money, but it was also to help people. Some old lady would be so grateful and happy that she finally got her little trailer set up and shit. It was cool.

MYE: You’re not just paying lip service on television.

KW: Yeah. We really didn’t have a choice. I mean, we needed money. We couldn’t make music. We couldn’t even get into our equipment and jam room until December 17th, and the storm happened August 29th. You couldn’t do anything if you wanted to. C.O.C. had to cancel a tour with Motorhead. I had some Crowbar stuff in Europe that I had to cancel.
It sucked, but thank God it is moving forward in a way.

MYE: What can you tell me about this project you’ve got going with Jamey Jasta from Hatebreed? It’s called Kingdom of Sorrow?

KW: Kingdom of Sorrow. It comes out on Relapse on the 10th, which is the same day that Arson Anthem comes out, which is Phil’s new project he’s got going with Hank III. They’re coming out the same day. I just found out I’m doing a video in a few days for Kingdom for a song called “Led Into Demise”.

MYE: Can’t wait to hear it, man.

KW: It’s cool stuff, man. There’s a Crowbar/Hatebreed vibe to it, but we did some more things also. I think people will be surprised. I mean, it started off a lot sounding like Crowbar and Hatebreed glued together with fast hardcore parts and slow doomy parts, but we developed in the course of writing it, our own sound. It’s a lot of fun to play, and I think it will surprise some people. It’s heavy as all fuck, it really is!

MYE: Nice, man. I love in Down, also, how you’ve always had some psychedelic parts. I mean, there’d be stuff that is reminiscent of Sabbath’s great “Planet Caravan” and stuff, which of course Pantera also covered.

KW: Right, right.

MYE: I love when, even classic rock bands, like the Doors or something, would have more straight forward songs and then more psychedelic ones like “Unknown Soldier” or “Not to Touch the Earth”. And then you guys will do stuff , too, where you’ll throw in these twists to make it sound like a real album and not every song the same.

KW: Right, right. There’s different guitars and different amps on songs so they sound different. Something like Kingdom is the opposite of that. So is Crowbar. We have one sound. We have slower songs, but it’s full on. With Down there are so many different textures and sounds that we like to use. It sounds like it’s a record, but the tones are different from song to song. Some of the tracks have a heavier tone or are multi-tracked or something like “Beneath the Tides”, Pepper would be on one side and me on the other, and it is just one track.

MYE: I love that one. It’s amazing.

KW: That’s one of my favorite ones. It’s one of my favorites to play.

MYE: I hope you play that one tonight!

KW: Oh, we will. It’s one of our favorites. We’re all talking about how if we do another video that will probably be it.

MYE: It’s really grown on you guys?

KW: Yeah, it goes over great live, and I love it.

MYE: Dude, well it’s really great to meet you. Kick some ass!

KW: You too, man.