When the subject comes up of true innovators in punk and rock music, it don’t get much more genuine that Cheetah Chrome of Dead Boys/Rocket From The Tombs and the one and only Sylvain Sylvain of The New York Dolls. Countless imitators and drooling fans have slaved to try and give a guitar as basic and yet stunningly perfect sleaze-glam attack as these two heroic punk maestros. Each classic New York figurehead casts a bitchin’ musical shadow and has been much discussed, copied, or very often covered. (I recommend you check out the totally gnarly Blood For Blood version of Dead Boy’s “All This And More” on Wasted Youth Brew.) Who woulda thunk that Cheetah and Sylvain would someday make a killer record together and remind us all yet again how it is done? It’s almost too good to be true, but it is true and it goes by the mystical name of…Batusis!

I talked with Sylvain Sylvain at length about his friendship with Cheetah, following your muse, how to treat a song the right way and much more. Sylvain is a fountain of great stories and this was really enjoyable, even with the sad news I learned directly from Sylvain that Malcolm McLaren had died the very day of this interview. Despite that sad turn of events, the music of Batusis is bright evidence that punk and real rock’n’roll is alive and well. This collaboration between Cheetah and Sylvain, produced by ex-Wilco member Ken Coomer, is not just hoot…it’s also pretty darn brilliant!

MORGAN Y. EVANS: Hey, man. I met you once. I’m friends with Dava from She Wolves (note: who used to play with Sylvain). You and her came up to Woodstock, New York when my old band Divest was working on a record at Applehead Studios for Doc from Bad Brains’ label. Remember Dava did the guest vocal and then we all had dinner?

SYLVAIN SYLVAIN: Oh, yeah, yeah! That was years ago.

MYE: I know. Time flies. Dava said to say, “Hi”. I’m singing back ups with her and She Wolves lately.

SS: Really? Cool. Yeah, she’s a sweetheart.

MYE: Dude, this Batusis EP is great! I heard about it a few weeks ago and it was really great to get to hear it. Obviously you’ve known Cheetah a long time and that shows in the chemistry, but how did this project come about?

SS: Actually, it was just kind of assembled together, really. I was looking for a deal and my manager was shopping me around. He called up Smog Veil Records and they said, “Well, we’ve got Cheetah. How about if they made a record together?” I said, “Wow, that’s a great idea.” I’ve been trying to work with Cheetah for years. I knew him. We never did a recording thing together but we’d jam over the years and that’s how we really kinda popped in together, y’know?

MYE: Yeah, man. Of course, both of you guys are very influential. (Author’s note: understatement of the year) Many bands have been influenced by the styles you’ve played over the years but there’s nothing like hearing the real thing.

SS: Mmmm…yeah, and actually we started to perform. A couple weeks ago we did SXSW. It’s really cool. Most bands you have one person who’s gonna do the singing. With us, it goes up and down. To me, it works really well. He sings a song and then I’m gonna do the next song. The excitement keeps on going, y’know what I mean?

MYE: It’s cool. You’ve got different perspectives. Even the songs on the EP, you’ve got different looks on New York. There’s your song about the dumb girl who is total eye candy and we’ve all been there. Then “Bury You Alive” seems about alienation and politics.

SS: Yeah, yeah. Cheetah’s song is kinda dark [laughing]…if you will. He’s got a political agenda, which of course, everybody should have and I have somewhat myself. Mine is sort of…It’s not so much she’s dumb but she’s gorgeous. It’s one of those where maybe the librarian is not gonna turn you on so much in the bedroom.

MYE: I dunno. That’s kind of my fetish, hot librarian girls. [laughing]

SS: [laughing] So yeah, it’s got that attitude. But yeah, this is gonna be a lot of fun. Rock n’ roll should have every aspect, that kind of flavor that drives you nuts enough to take off your clothes and run around the house naked. Then your mother comes home and finds you like that and smacks you.

MYE: [cracking up] Yeah, man. Even with the Dolls, when you came back, it didn’t feel like a retread. Of course there were musical similarities to your earlier albums, but it still was vibrant and reminds people that’s the chemistry that should be alive in real rock n’ roll.

SS: That’s true. Oh man, today is a sad day for me though. I lost one of my good rock’n’roll buddies. I don’t know if you heard about Malcolm McLaren? He passed away today.

MYE: [shocked] Are you serious?! I didn’t know yet. I haven’t been near a computer in the last few hours.

SS: Yeah, yeah. I’ve been doing interviews all day from the BBC to the London Times and The Guardian.

MYE: How’d he die?

SS: It was a total surprise to me. Supposedly he got cancer and didn’t even tell anybody, really. Maybe some of his close relatives or whatever. Yeah, Malcolm McLaren. The whole thing with him was, of course, he managed the Dolls at the very end.

MYE: The red suits. Yeah, man. I loved that shit.

SS: Yeah, the red patent leather. Remember that one? When I started this business I was really in the clothing stuff. I met Malcolm and Vivienne Westwood at a trade show in New York in 1971.

MYE: Right. Wow.

SS: I had this knit wear company called Truth & Soul with our ex-drummer in The Dolls, Billy Murcia. Me and him. All the way down the hall, man, at the trade show, there’s Malcolm and Vivienne. Their shop when they started was called Let It Rock. It was really rockabilly. It’s a sweet but sad situation today for me. But anyways, to get back to The Batusis…we did the EP in November in Nashville. Now I live in Atlanta and Cheetah lives in Nashville. Cheetah points it out pretty good. We’re not only Yankees but now that we live in the South he says we’re “Damn Yankees”. [laughing]

MYE: [laughing]

SS: It came about really quick. We did it in four days and we were only signed to do three songs, but we had enough time to do four. I’m really proud of the fact that we got two instrumentals out of four songs. Two instrumentals! When do you ever hear that anymore?

MYE: Yeah, how’d the “Blues’ Theme” Allen/Curb cover come about? I really like that. It reminds me of The Ventures.

SS: That’s the one I brought out, the last one we took. Of course, we had a dynamite rhythm section. Thommy Price and Enzo Penizzotto from Joan Jett. Cheetah brought them in. I’d met Thommy years and years ago. He used to go out with one of my friends. He had played, of course, with Willy DeVille and people like that. We never recorded together, let alone jammed. There we were, and I’m a big fan of the movie The Wild Angels, where that song is featured. It’s got that melody and it’s the most driven hook.

MYE: Pounding surf, almost.

SS: Exactly. It just kind of came about and was the last tune. Cheetah had one of his friends up in Nashville…of course, we recorded at Blackbird Studio. That’s a pretty big house in Nashville.

MYE: You worked with Ken who was in Wilco, right?

SS: Yeah, yeah. Ken Coomer was the producer. He did a great job. He really pulled it out of those speakers and gave us a great drum sound. He fuckin’ went to town on that deal. Cheetah had this friend who had a motorcycle. Now, it’s NOT a Harley, which I think I woulda liked that better, but this guy brings in a Triumph. I’m crazy about the Café Riders and all that. Those are the British guys who used to ride from one café to another, how fast they can get to it, y’know?

MYE: Tear down the street!

SS: Exactly. They used to have Triumphs and Norton’s, their favorite bikes. So this guy, we brought him to the studio with his bike and brought him up to the doors. [chuckling] He’s revving up and there’s all this noise and smoke. Cheetah’s son is going nuts. “I can’t breathe! Daddy!”

MYE: [laughing]

SS: [laughing] “Get the kid out’ve here!” It’s real cool. We took all these takes of the motorcycle and I kind of threw it together as a story. It’s like, “Right here I need a couple more revs.” He starts the engine in the beginning. At the very end he rides off into the sunset and it fades from right to left, y’know? I just love to play. I’ve been doing that for all my life. The minute I heard “Leader Of The Pack”, those kinda old songs…You can’t get it out’ve your blood after awhile.

MYE: The production of this has a real almost vintage rock sound but with modern production. It still has the bite, though. People say “guitar is back” every couple of years and now it’s cool, even with stuff like the new Slash solo record or even Orianthi getting attention for her ability to play crazy leads. The thing is, talking about Malcolm again, certain stylistic things that made a huge impact like punk or certain types of guitar playing in different genres are never gonna go away. It’s great to see things get reincorporated and the influence get spread further.

SS: Yeah, yeah. You’ve got to produce the song. Not the singer or the guitar player or the producer. You’ve got to do what the song wants. If you are right there with it when you are writing it, the song calls for those things! I need this. I need this now. It’s almost like a baby’s cry.

MYE: That’s a really good analogy. It’s true. People that aren’t musicians don’t know, but it really is more important than the sum of its parts.

SS: Yeah. I think people make a lot of mistakes. Blah, blah, blah is coming in so they produce him instead of the song, but really…what are you there for? To record! That should be the ultimate motivation, and also, goal.

MYE: The person is an asset. On another note, you’ve known Cheetah a long time, but working in Batusis did you learn anything else about each other?

SS: It was really a breath of fresh air for both of us, especially for me. This one was really, like, ours. Sometimes when you’re recording it’s the whole band. It depends on what situation you’re in, of course. In a band everyone gets their word in and you might lose what maybe the point should’ve been. You’re trying to satisfy this guy or another person. With this baby it was really good. On my song, Cheetah took the lead. On his song, I took the lead. We didn’t have no big clashes between egos or rivalries from days gone by. It was really clean and nice to work that way. Ken Coomer and also the engineer, Charlie Brocco, Charlie, man…he’s worked with some of the best, one of them is George Harrison.

MYE: Really?

SS: Yeah. And Ken and Charlie were great together. They understood what was going on. We were inventing this as we were there, just like the name. We were lookin’ for a name. We got together. That was cool. What are we gonna call it? Cheetah and Sylvain, or whatever? We’re throwing around ideas and then the last day we were about to mix. We’re listening back to the tracks and actually “Blues’ Theme” is kicking around in the cans. I started to dance, like the famous Batman dance that he does with the fingers up in his eyes and stuff. All of a sudden Ken Coomer and Enzo started to dance. Cheetah said to me, “What the hell is that dance?” I don’t know what it’s called but it’s the dance that Batman does. He’s got his laptop on his lap and starts Googling it…

MYE: [laughing]

SS: Cheetah says, “It’s called the Batusis!” I said, “That’s it! That’s the fuckin’ name!” [cracking up]

MYE: [laughing harder] I was wondering. I was like, “It sounds Egyptian or something.”

SS: So that was that. It was so fuckin’ sweet. It just came about, just like our songs came about. I didn’t know what his song was gonna be about. I’d never heard it until I got there and the same thing with Cheetah. I wrote “What You Lack In Brains” maybe two weeks before that. I was kickin’ it around in my house on my little practice amp. That’s what made the magic. It took years to get to that point, but it was beautiful. I love it.

MYE: I know you’ve got a lot on your plate. You’ve got a New York Dolls tour coming up. Is Batusis planning a full length?

SS: The Batusis got a tour of England now. We just did SXSW about two weeks ago, two shows over there. One was at a vinyl record shop in Austin, Texas. It went really good, man, ‘cuz all the kids that came there were really fans so that was beautiful, y’know? Besides our new stuff we did the ones we’re famous for, like the songs Cheetah wrote in Dead Boys like “Sonic Reducer” and “Here Comes Trouble”. I threw in some of the songs I wrote in the Dolls like “Trash” and, I never got credited, but I had plenty to do with writing the song “Jetboy” with The Dolls. The place went nuts. The kids were really sweet. Now starting May 1st we’re doing the whole UK! We’ve got something like ten to twelve shows all around the UK. We’re gonna be in the States and play Irving Plaza July the 15th, I think it is.

MYE: That’s great. I’ll try to go to that.

SS: Definitely. Come down. It’s the Friday. Hang with us and we’ll tell you exactly when it’s gonna be.

MYE: I’ll tell Dava also. She’ll wanna go to that.

SS: Oh, I’m gonna call her anyway and tell her. Are you still living in Woodstock?

MYE: Yeah. I go back and forth to New York as much as I can. My new band Antidote 8 has a nice studio Darkworld up here so we’re working on gettin’ a record together.

SS: Yeah, man. Cool. I have a Woodstock history. That was the first place I ever owned a business. The sweater shop, Truth & Soul Sweaters, the first place was Woodstock in 1968!

MYE: Really? I didn’t know that! I don’t think you mentioned that when I met you.

SS: Yeah. The year before the festival I was right there on Tinker Street, upstairs, right before you go around the bend.

MYE: It’s such a magical thing where I can live here much of my life and still learn new stories from that time. So much craziness happened.

SS: Oh, yeah. That was a groovy time. I remember one night, on the weekends they would do a roadblock right there on the town square before you come around the bend. You had the bus stop there.

MYE: They’d try and arrest the guys in The Band for drunk driving. [laughing]

SS: Yeah, man. So what I used to do was I had a Fender amplifier and I used the speakers and hooked that up outside my window. When the cops were doing their busts I had it hooked up to my turn table and I’d play Sly and The Family Stone and shit like that. [laughing]

MYE: [laughing] Awesome.

SS: So the poor kids, man, some of them were getting’ busted but they were happy that at least they heard some good music and shit. [laughing]

MYE: Oh, that’s so thoughtful of you, man. [laughing] It’s like, “Keep up the fight!”

SS: Exactly. Give ‘em a reason. There was this place for swimming called…Big Deep. You know where that is?

MYE: Yeah, I’d go swimming or sneak beers there sometimes. You’re blowing my mind here, Syl.

SS: Yeah, and every now and then I would see Jimi Hendrix. He had three Corvette Stingrays. He had a yellow one, a silver one and he had a red one. It depended on what day you’d see him. He’d park right downstairs from my shop and kids would come up, “Hey Jimi!” That was great. Great times.

MYE: I saw a door that he used to own that was put into some other house and it was this massive rock star looking King Kong door made of like bronze or gold or something.

SS: [laughing] Can you imagine. I had my first shop when I was sixteen! I convinced the landlord. Her name was Bonnie. She had like a kids shop downstairs. My last name is Mizrahi so I said , “I’m one of the Mizrahis,” and she said, “Oh, wow. Your father is very famous,” and all that.

MYE: How did you end up opening the shop up here? You grew up in Queens.

SS: Yeah, I was a Brooklyn and Queens kid and I basically grew up on the Lower East Side, if anything. I left home when I was really young. We used to sell stuff wholesale out’ve the shop and we’d knit up there. We’d make sweaters and pullovers and even bikinis out’ve knit, so…then we sold ‘em down in New York. The Different Drummer. Limbo’s. You know where Trash and Vaudeville is on St. Mark’s? That used to be Limbo’s. Then I would sell to them and Betsey Johnson. Her and two other girls had a shop, it was called Betsey, Bunky, and Nini on 53rd Street. This was really early days. Actually, The Different Drummer, I used to work there. Me and Billy Murcia. That was on Lexington and 63rd or something street. Down the road from Bloomingdale’s. That was how I found the name of The New York Dolls. I got inspired ‘cuz down the street from the place was a toy repair shop on the second floor. It was called The New York Doll Hospital.

MYE: Yep. Heard this one.

SS: Yeah, so that was how. It’s really weird, years later…last year the guy who owned the Doll Hospital passed away. I get a call all of a sudden from Bob Gruen, the photographer, and he’s like, “Sylvain, man. The old man passed away and they wanna give you the sign.” It’s really cool, his daughter kept reading some of the books that came out about The Dolls over the years and I reveal that story. They called me up and wanted to give me the sign. Now I have it here in my basement. I’ve got the neon sign that says “New York Doll’s Hospital”, plus the vinyl awning that goes over the street, like dry cleaners have. I have them both! Man, you want to see an old man cry?! It meant a LOT to me. I hope to one day, when the Dolls play, we can afford to bring it out there.

MYE: That’s like completing the circle.

SS: Yeah, exactly, man, you know? Life is only but a circle and God bless everyone that participates and makes this place a fuckin’ groovy damn joint.

MYE: [laughing] Word. Y’know, talking about fashion and stuff, The Dolls were very forward thinking. People a lot of times just copy each other’s images these days and you were designing and working stuff in at a young age. Fashion doesn’t have to be “fake”. It can be innovative.

SS: Yes. Wherever you find you don’t like things it is up to you to dream about it and make a change. For a lot of people it is just music. It’s a lifestyle. It’s everything combined together in this beautiful thing that makes a skyscraper soup, if you will. It’s really beautiful, man. Some people say the New York Dolls wore costumes. I really disagree with that. They are mixing the boat there with Kiss and The New York Dolls. Kiss was probably something you could perceive as a costume. I wore that stuff…I’m wearing it right now! It’s not like I take it off and hang it up in the closet. These are the actual clothes I wanna wear. [laughing] It’s not a costume like that, it’s part of your life. In the words of John Lennon, “Got to be good looking ‘cuz you’re so hard to see.” Y’ know?

MYE: Absolutely, man. It’s all sociology, too. It is important to take that stand and a snapshot of time.

SS: Exactly, and it can live forever. If you believe in it, no matter how awful it may seem to others, it’s gorgeous to you. The only thing that really matters is to be true to yourself.

MYE: It was really good talking, man.

SS: Yeah, I hope to see you and Dava in New York.